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David Bohm's avatar

Bingo! Spot on! ... I just wish I could share in your optimism ... alas, I believe that collapse is inevitable and I look forward to being part of the phoenix that will arise from the ashes. Unfortunately, I foresee a lot of tragedy between here and there.

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Rightful Freedom's avatar

Yes, absolutely.

I just commented that our current U.S. system may resemble the Bourbon dynasty, in the days immediately preceding the French Revolution. If so, we are in for period of upheaval, violence probably, and, yes, tragedy. And a totally unpredictable outcome.

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Diogenes Spooner's avatar

They will not be reversed. We must punish the responsible parties so severely they mark the act forever.

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realitybiter's avatar

I agree that punishment is necessary. Why? Not for retribution, but to eliminate their continued bad actions.

Case in point. The mass surveillance activists, like John Brennan. He is advocating more today! He should be in prison. Perjury, treason, take your pick.

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Unperson's avatar

I have lost hope that we can recover. We elect politicians who make decisions without expertise, who are guided by third-parties with ulterior motives, and the size of government is now too big for anyone to manage properly. Perhaps a "fall" would be best: The loss of central political control in the Western Roman Empire, a process in which the Empire failed to enforce its rule, and its vast territory was divided into several successor polities.

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David Bohm's avatar

I concur. I spend my time building a new life outside of that disaster of a culture.

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ae_savant's avatar

One reason that the "men think of Rome everyday" meme is so prevalent today is that we see these parallels and that the West as we know it is slipping away. Everyday there is news that reminds us of the perilous circumstances we face and yet feel we are disenfranchised from doing anything to hold those accountable for the regression that has already occurred. A terrible storm is coming one way or another. One that cleanses he streets or one that inundates us all.

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James Madison's avatar

Welfare and entitlements versus fiscal restraint and higher taxes. In a democracy, where the vast majority of citizens think others will pay for government largess, which alternative wins? Ask Rome. Thus, we spend $3 for every $2 paid in taxes. It’s free. Ask Rome. And we fritter away with global climate change, critical theory (hatred), and weaponizing our system of justice.

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Rightful Freedom's avatar

The U.S. Government has evolved into a system for transferring money from the people who earned it to people who didn't. And among the latter group, the people who get most of the money, are the government itself.

It's called a kleptocracy, of course. And if we want a historical precedent, our current U.S. system may resemble the Bourbon kleptocracy, in the days immediately preceding the French Revolution.

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Cracker With Attitude's avatar

A few points of contention:

- The Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476

- The Emperor Constantine moved the seat of governance to New Rome in 330

- Historians renamed The Eastern Roman Empire as the Byzantine Empire eventhough there was political continuity. It lasted until 1453 when it fell at the hands of the Turks.

- Gibbon attributes the Fall of the Western Empire to the advent of Christianity

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Kimberly Graciano's avatar

Good interview today with Alex!

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Kimberly Graciano's avatar

- I mean like the predators are trying all the tricks from a hundred to two hundred years back! Even the trains exploding, etc...Did you know that back in the day having trains run into each other became a pass time, for certain bored “elites” apparently, maybe late 1800’s early 1900’s! I think the recent events were “updated” versions of that, just like other recent events...I hardly ever watch movies now, but I noticed that I was being offered stories on YouTube on “How Rome Fell” like they’re trying to make us think it’s too late, nothing left to do...I don’t ascribe to that way of thinking! lol

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Kimberly Graciano's avatar

It feels like we’re going through that, and that these pr

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RedBaron's avatar

Short of a spiritual (read, Christian) revival in this country, the Empire will continue to spiral downward. Because of belief in God, Christians do the right thing, even when no human is looking. Even non-Christians, in days long past, admired and upheld Christianity as a good thing, understanding the morality it promoted. Without moral politicians, we can never expect them to do the right thing and actually act on the best interests of We the People. As John Adams (later the second President" said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." "Religion" in that era was a synonym for Christianity. All references above are to true Christianity, as many call themselves Christians who clearly are not. While not saved by works, a true Christian will show his belief in Christ is all he does.

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radrave's avatar

This is a merely speculative number, but I am planning to survive a 6 month collapse to transition period to a new polity in my florida home while doing what I can to prevent it.

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